**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 25 18:39:54 2000 18:39:54 --> RobertFit (bob@c851848-b.mntp1.il.home.com) has joined #jos 23:18:31 --> bob44 (bob@24-67-dialup-mtl.axess.com) has joined #jos 23:22:23 <-- bob44 has quit () 23:24:56 --> jewel_ (jewel@196.31.186.122) has joined #jos 23:25:15 You here, Robert ? 23:35:52 * jewel_ tries to attract attention 23:39:38 23:40:42 --- jewel_ has changed the topic to: JOS - The Java Operating System (http://jos.org) 23:47:32 Hello Jewel. 23:47:39 Hey Robert 23:47:45 Did that get your attention? :-)6 23:48:17 I had to think for a second about where the window came from. :) 23:48:23 Hehe 23:48:59 How you doing? 23:50:24 I'm ok, i'm looking forward to going home to Ireland in a week. 23:50:57 Cool, just a holiday? 23:52:46 Yeah sort of, i'll also be work from our office in Dublin for the month that i'll be back. 23:53:09 And then back to Chicago? 23:53:44 I'm not sure yet. 23:54:25 But you're going to stay with your firm? 23:55:32 Yes, there was talk of me going to New Zealand. 23:55:59 Wow, talk about travelling. Are you keen on NZ? 23:57:29 I don't mind, it's got to be better that Chicago. 23:57:59 What's bad about Chicago? The city itself or your work environment? 23:59:36 It's more the lack of a social life, i've basically been living on my own for the last nine months. 00:00:07 That can be very hard, especially in a foreign town 00:00:57 I'm very lucky to have quite a few friends from high school here in my home town 00:02:10 You need to have someone in your own age group to hang out with. 00:02:14 Just last night about 10 people came round to my place and we played a game of 'Nomic'. It's this game where you play by modifying the rules of the game. 00:02:46 Yeah, and they were all at school with me, so they're the same age and either working or studying. 00:05:07 I just miss going to a bar or night club with my friends, even though I don't drink. 00:06:30 Are your friends in Ireland or also scattered around? 00:07:12 There all in Ireland. 00:10:01 Do you feel like showing me your MM code ? 00:11:22 Yeah. 00:12:37 Let me fix it up, you made some changes today. 00:13:17 Yeah I committed just now, hope it doesn't interfere with what you've done 00:14:00 No big problems just two conflicts. 00:20:38 Can I add you to the SF teaseme project? 00:20:55 Yes, if you want. 00:21:03 What's your id? 00:21:09 robfitz 00:22:25 I'm busy adding a whole lot of stuff to the classpath module. The problem is that i don't know what is strictly necessary 00:24:44 That's the Java zip support? 00:25:15 No, a whole lot of stuff in the Classpath tree. like java/security gnu/java/* java/net etc etc 00:25:29 The zip stuff is still going slowly (been working on teaseme) 00:25:54 I would like to finish it though 00:26:28 Yes, it would be great for the bootdisk. 00:27:10 How is the BD looking? 00:30:05 It's not too bad, i've got a small kernel and root file system on the disk. I was trying to load the classfile off another disk but it was crashing. 00:30:51 do you know roughly how many K the classpath stuff takes up? 00:31:10 I wonder if a ramdisk will be a good idea? 00:33:24 The best way to figure out what class files are needed is to print the names out when they get loaded by a normal setup. 00:34:07 Yes I can do that, I used to do that for kissme, let me go see where that code is 00:34:33 Yeah, a ramdisk would work. The problem is my test machine only has 8MB ram, so I can't really spare it until the VMM is working. 00:35:49 Yes I can see the problem there 00:37:27 Ok, I'm building teaseme again to see if this works 00:42:17 It works, but just prints out the console. I suppose you want it in a file. 00:42:37 Do you want the path to the classfile relative to the /teaseme/classpath dir? 00:43:25 No don't mind about getting it for me, I'll get it for myself when I need it. 00:43:52 Ok sure, but it does remind me that I need to finish the sys_file_write impl. 00:48:27 Is there any way to turn off the network code? 00:48:27 -jewel_- DCC REJECT GET .procmailrc 00:49:02 Urm, at a build level or running level? 00:49:25 Build, i'm getting unresolved symbol errors. 00:49:53 In config.h comment out LINUX_SOCK 00:50:04 I hope that removes the symbol errors 00:52:34 No didn't work. 00:53:10 Yes I just looked, you'll have to change lib/indigenous/teaseme.system.servers.socket/Socket.c 00:53:23 Just put an #ifdef LINUX_SOCK at the top and an #endif at the end 00:53:42 The same might be neccessary for vm/sys_linux_kernel/socket.c 00:54:22 No that file is empty now ... 00:54:56 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. 00:56:40 Ok I've made that change and committed it 00:59:39 Ok, got it. 00:59:54 Are you trying to run it or just build it? 01:00:08 (Because I'm committing lots of stuff to the classpath module which you should use) 01:00:16 I'm trying to run it. 01:00:26 Yeah, i'll get them now. 01:01:53 I think i'm going to need a bigger disk. ;) 01:02:45 :-( 01:04:12 What is the cavalry stuff used for? 01:04:30 The cavalry stuff is my Java Assembler and my JIT 01:04:38 It doesn't need to be here at all 01:04:49 Are they needed? 01:05:01 No, I'll remove it just now 01:05:34 You don't have to, there not that big. 01:06:00 But it will be out of date later anyway, I rather get a fresh copy from the kissme base 01:06:37 Ok. 01:07:00 Is there a way to recursively remove a whole tree? 01:07:20 From cvs? 01:07:46 yes 01:07:56 cvs -R [files...] 01:08:15 cvs -R remove [files] ? 01:08:36 sorry, cvs remove -R [files] 01:09:56 Can you tell me why CVS always lists a whole lot of java/lang/.class files when I do a commit? 01:10:11 It lists them as modified, even though they aren't 01:11:15 They get recompiled when you build the source, so cvs thinks there modified. 01:12:03 Yes, but I've done 100 commits and it still thinks they're modified 01:13:51 Maybe it's a date thing... 01:13:58 Maybe it's a line ending problem, did you add the .class files a binary? 01:14:13 Yes, that could be the problem. 01:14:22 I have to go sleep now, I'm driving to a different city tomorrow to visit a friend 01:14:33 Ah I didn't do that, how do I do that? 01:14:33 You can try deleting the files and do a cvs update to get them again. 01:14:35 Ok. 01:14:52 Are you going to be in IRC tomorrow? 01:15:37 Yes, but not until the evening. 01:15:54 In GMT terms? 01:16:43 1800 01:17:06 Ok, I should be home by then, so I might see you tomorrow. 01:17:14 Yeah. 01:17:24 Happy coding 01:17:30 Good night. 01:17:42 Bye 01:17:49 Bye. 01:20:43 <-- jewel_ has quit (Ping timeout) 05:25:26 --- RobertFit sets mode +t 05:25:32 --- RobertFit sets mode +n 05:25:54 --- RobertFit has changed the topic to: The JOS Project 05:26:30 --- You are now known as rf-away 10:51:07 --> Tubez (Xner@7dyn61.delft.casema.net) has joined #jos 12:26:24 --- Tubez is now known as TubAway 14:36:10 <-- TubAway has quit ("Ogni tanto mi chiedo cosa mai stiamo aspettando." Silenzio. "Che sia troppo tardi Madame." -- Alessandro Baricco, 'Oceano Mare') 16:01:30 --> Tubez (Xner@7dyn61.delft.casema.net) has joined #jos 16:53:16 --> popeye- (POUH_@64.228.225.11) has joined #jos 17:19:38 <-- popeye- (POUH_@64.228.225.11) has left #jos 17:19:52 --> popeye- (POUH_@64.228.225.11) has joined #jos 17:51:01 --> bob44 (bob@87-67-dialup-mtl.axess.com) has joined #jos 17:52:08 <-- bob44 has quit () 18:32:02 --- You are now known as RobertFit 18:32:07 Hello. 18:40:36 --- Tubez is now known as TubAway 19:04:50 --> jewel_ (jewel@pta-dial-196-31-186-55.mweb.co.za) has joined #jos 19:05:02 In GMT terms? 19:06:31 Hi Guys 19:29:07 <-- TubAway has quit (baltimore-r.md.us.undernet.org NewYork-R.NY.US.Undernet.Org) 19:29:07 <-- jewel_ has quit (baltimore-r.md.us.undernet.org Baltimore.MD.US.Undernet.Org) 19:29:07 --- Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 26 19:29:07 2000 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 26 19:46:32 2000 19:46:32 --> RobertFit (bob@c851848-b.mntp1.il.home.com) has joined #jos 19:46:32 --- Topic for #jos is The JOS Project 19:46:32 --- Topic for #jos set by RobertFit at Sun Nov 26 05:28:51 2000 20:14:58 <-- popeye- (POUH_@64.228.225.11) has left #jos 20:36:16 --- You are now known as rf-away 20:40:33 --> popeye- (POUH_@64.228.225.11) has joined #jos 21:21:44 <-- popeye- has quit (Broken pipe) 21:27:57 --> popeye- (POUH@64.228.225.157) has joined #jos 21:43:27 <-- popeye- has quit (Passer 1 beau Nowell :)) 22:34:56 --> cheche_ (IRcap6@Doi.BIG-LM.Brasovia.ro) has joined #jos 22:35:14 --> bibanul (laptic@217.10.206.21) has joined #jos 22:35:19 <-- bibanul (laptic@217.10.206.21) has left #jos 22:35:35 <-- cheche_ (IRcap6@Doi.BIG-LM.Brasovia.ro) has left #jos 23:02:42 --> Harris^^^ (sp21@dialup56k-02.verena.net) has joined #jos 23:03:04 FUKK THEM BOTH! 23:08:46 --> popeye- (POUH@64.228.225.157) has joined #jos 23:12:57 iliescu este asasinul lui Ioan Petru Culianu!iliescu este asasinul lui Ioan Petru Culianu!iliescu este asasinul lui Ioan Petru Culianu! 23:17:33 <-- popeye- (POUH@64.228.225.157) has left #jos 23:18:01 <-- TubAway (Xner@7dyn61.delft.casema.net) has left #jos 23:23:37 --> SethH (~klmi@217.10.206.162) has joined #jos 23:23:48 <-- SethH (~klmi@217.10.206.162) has left #jos 23:24:47 --> Nikole (Nikole@217.10.206.12) has joined #jos 23:25:11 <-- Nikole (Nikole@217.10.206.12) has left #jos 23:33:02 --> Fushion (~a@1Cust176.tnt28.rtm1.nl.uu.net) has joined #jos 23:34:11 --> ALIN2222 (ady@Sase.BIG-LM.Brasovia.ro) has joined #jos 23:34:53 JOS ILIESCU 23:34:56 JOS ILIESCU 23:34:56 JOS ILIESCU 23:34:57 JOS ILIESCU 23:34:58 JOS ILIESCU 23:34:59 JOS ILIESCU 23:35:00 JOS ILIESCU 23:35:01 JOS ILIESCU 23:35:02 JOS ILIESCU 23:35:02 JOS ILIESCU 23:35:04 JOS ILIESCU 23:35:06 JOS ILIESCU 23:36:24 Please, thos is no Romanian channel... 23:37:06 <-- Harris^^^ (sp21@dialup56k-02.verena.net) has left #jos 23:42:24 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:26 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:28 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:28 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:29 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:30 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:31 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:32 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:34 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:35 JOS ILIESCU 23:42:37 JOS ILIESCU 23:45:30 bot? 23:55:45 --> jewel_ (jewel@pta-dial-196-31-185-180.mweb.co.za) has joined #jos 23:55:57 Hey guys 23:56:13 Hi jewel! 23:57:05 Is Rob away? 23:57:25 Think so, if rf is hem... 23:57:46 yes, did you speak to him earlier? 23:58:09 Nope, just joined ten minutes ago. 23:58:58 Is there meant to be a meeting or did you just pop in? 23:59:43 I just popped in, as I do almost every week at this time just to see if there is some news. 00:01:24 Well I spoke to Robert yesterday, there isn't major news, he's creating a boot disk for teaseme and I'm working on support for networking 00:03:10 I'm still working on an assembler for X86 opcodes in java. Hmmm, did not know there are so many different opcodes... 00:03:34 Yes there are a lot 00:03:40 Did you look at my assembler code? 00:04:24 Not yet, but I have a feeling that you're goinng to tell me where I can find it :-) 00:04:44 hehe 00:04:53 Let me think quick ... 00:05:34 You can grab this classpath archive: http://download.sourceforge.net/kissme/classes-2000-06-28.zip 00:05:49 It should have my assembler under cavalry.assembler.Assembler 00:06:11 If you have a slow connection I can also send it to you directly (that .zip file is about 5-8M) 00:06:59 I would be very interested to hear any comments or ideas, I'm sure there is something I've thought of that you haven't and vice-versa. 00:07:52 Can I look at your stuff? 00:08:09 If I have any, I'll let you know. Is your assembler 'inline' or does it use seperate source files ? 00:08:54 It is basically inline, you pass it a string or something and it will compile it, let me check ... 00:09:40 Here is one of my methods: private static AssemblyResult assembleLine(String line, ByteArrayOutputStre\am out) throws IOException, AssemblyException 00:10:04 public static void assembleFromSource( BufferedReader sourceStream, ByteArr\ayOutputStream out ) throws IOException, AssemblyException 00:10:47 --> Dudy (~one@ppp101.dnttm.ro) has joined #jos 00:10:56 Hello Dudy 00:10:59 cam multi 00:11:01 Ah, mine will be like this: asm.mov( EAX, MEM(BX, 0x0a00) ); etc. 00:11:11 o punem deo rascoala? 00:11:14 Ah right 00:11:31 ios cam rasculat deja 00:11:32 Mine works from "source", you can't invoke it from running java code 00:12:23 <-- Dudy (~one@ppp101.dnttm.ro) has left #jos 00:13:23 Yes I see why you want that. 00:13:26 Where do you send the output, do you keep it in a buffer? 00:13:56 buffer: -> 00:14:07 asm = new X86Assembler 00:14:20 asm.mov( AX, BX ); etc 00:14:43 asm.compile( byte[] buf ); 00:14:49 end. 00:14:57 So yours doesn't cater for a source listing then? Mine actually gets used a bit like this: 00:15:21 qc("mov eax,[ebp + 0x8]"); 00:15:24 qc("add eax,0x" + Integer.toHexString(offset)); 00:15:24 qc("push [eax]"); 00:15:39 Where 'qc' just calls assembleLine 00:17:27 I see. I once thought that I should do it that way also, but I found out that I didn't want to have the string-parsing stuff for spedd reasons, and I wanted to have compiler warnings at JAVA-compile time. 00:18:14 Ah yes, that is a definite advantage. 00:18:14 My warnings come at run time 00:18:38 But the string-parsing stuff allows to first write something and test it with NASM or something, and then use it with the cavalry assembler 00:19:45 That is true. but it will have some impact on performance an memory. 00:19:57 If you look in the cavalry package you'll also see a DebugAssembly class which matches the assembly output with the original source lines, that can be very useful 00:20:16 Yes you're right 00:21:02 The ultimate would be to have both interfaces onto the same assembler 00:21:10 btw, I'm makin the assembler itself object-oriented: X386Assembler extends X286Assembler etc. 00:21:39 Hehe, I never thought about anything below a Pentium! 00:21:59 But it's good, then you can cater for different MMX extensions etc 00:22:45 Yes, I want to be able to boot my 286 with a java-os without having the burden of MMX opcodes. 00:23:07 LOL, you're quite ambitious! 00:23:54 Tell me something.... have you read my mailing about black, my in-my-head java OS ? 00:24:33 I remember you talking about black, I think on IRC or the list. But refresh my memory? 00:25:08 I have the idea of an OS written COMPLETLY in java. 00:25:23 Ah yes, like jalapeno 00:25:48 it will boot as a precompiled X86 (or 286) bootable image... 00:26:22 It will basically compile itself, you will use another JVM to compile it 00:27:14 It will then recompile itself (from its original java-classes) to an optimized version for the current processor ( 586? ) 00:28:04 The new version will get the focus and the old will be deleted from memory. 00:28:22 Have you ever used gcj? 00:28:43 I have heard of it, but not used it yet. 00:29:09 You should try it (I haven't yet), but it matches a lot of what you want to do 00:29:28 <-- ALIN2222 (ady@Sase.BIG-LM.Brasovia.ro) has left #jos 00:29:34 We should try write a mini C compile to work with our assemblers 00:29:46 Have you ever used a compiler-compiler ? 00:30:37 I have compiled a cross-compiler if that is what you mean. 00:30:57 No, I mean have you used a tool like yacc, bison or ANTLR? 00:31:10 nope. 00:32:02 I would like to encourage you to look at one. It allows you to write a compiler that can parse programming language input 00:32:19 There is a Java one (that produces Java source code) called ANTLR and another called SableCC 00:32:45 I'll have a look at them. 00:32:51 If we can write a small C compiler, it could help us bootstrap a Java->native code compiler 00:33:32 Would you be interested in writing a small C compiler? 00:35:08 Well, I first would like to finish my assembler if you don't mind :-) 00:35:24 Hehe, of course, but would you like to help me write one? 00:35:41 yes, why not ? 00:36:06 I have to get this spider out of my computer ... 00:37:33 Ah shit I can't find it, I really don't want a spider making a web in there 00:38:51 Can you give me your email address? 00:40:08 mgangelen@quintop.nl ps. I can't find any cavalry classes in your zip. 00:40:50 Really? I thought they might not be in there, hang a sec 00:44:00 Ok try http://kissme.sourceforge.net/cavalry.tar.gz (Just wait a bit it's still copying) 00:46:37 The copy isn't working ... 00:46:41 Can I dcc it to you? 00:46:57 Or email it? 00:46:58 give it a try... 00:48:36 going slow, but it's coming. 00:49:44 SableCC is here: http://www.sable.mcgill.ca/sablecc/ 00:49:46 Yeah my modem is slow! 00:51:12 Hmm, but not that slow! 00:54:55 Ok, you got it? 00:55:07 yep. 00:59:54 I just downloaded sableCC and got it running, I'm going to make sure it works on my setup 01:03:47 It seems it has a "SimpleC" example, let me see what it is 01:04:04 got sable too.I'll look at it tomorrow. For now I'm going to sleep cause I have to get up in 5 hours. Will you mail me if you have anything to discuss ? 01:05:58 Sure thing, thanks for the chat 01:06:27 thanks also, bye! 01:07:43 <-- Fushion (~a@1Cust176.tnt28.rtm1.nl.uu.net) has left #jos 01:24:17 <-- jewel_ has quit (Ping timeout) 08:33:15 --> Jos_Ilici (~vili@194.176.188.142) has joined #jos 08:34:41 <-- Jos_Ilici (~vili@194.176.188.142) has left #jos **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 27 14:49:12 2000